I’m writing here as a proud Jew, a proud Israeli, and a proud believer in the necessity of the church to the world, and the necessity of a strong United States to the west. I’m definitely not above the desire to talk, nicely if possible. I myself and my Israeli community, and basically most of the Israeli right are-
Against George soros and his evil doctrine which harms everyone everywhere.
Against Jeffery Epstein, even from before his death, as he, while not a mossad agent, was a powerful donor to our deep-state.
Against the foreign aid from the USA, based on the assumption that friends don’t need charity, and we have the money to buy from you.
We fu—-ng hate the adl. They are a leftist organisation ran by the same commissars who run our judiciary.
And definitely we don’t want US troops on the ground. I fought from oct7 in Gaza and Lebanon, it’s our duty, not yours.
And now, I must ask. How can a fine Christian man support Hamas- basically nazis. When the Iranian regime shouts death to America, how can you ignore it as just talks. We the Israelis feel betrayed from our religious catholic friends.
I understand and respect everything you've written, and we shouldn't be supporting Hamas. But I also don't think we should be supporting ISIS, or the new regime that took power in Syria, which is a spawn of AQ and Al Nusra. That is something that the US and Israeli have done together, in terms of materiele, funding, and training.
And what about Libya? And Iraq? Yemen? All joint US-Israeli efforts to destroy these countries in the Middle East, whose refugees were then funneled to Europe. The US has no strategic interest in any of these countries and the pretense that we do was given up ten years ago at least. Why should I defend the state of Israel when at all turns their actions are counter to the wellbeing of me and my countrymen?
I respect your position, truly do. About the Syrian new regime, while Israel benefited from the collapse of Assad, in the days later we bombed any massive weapon they had. The former regime bombed civilians with airplanes, this one has pistols and knives. We also took control on a buffer zone to protect our brothers, the Druze community. I encourage you to read about it.
Now, Yemen attacks American ships and American trade. Is it fine with you? Biden was fine with that. Trump isn’t. No one want nor should put troops on the ground.
I was born when the tower collapsed, my Israeli born mother saw it and from the panic they rushed her to the hospital. We see you with tons of respect, and together, our two countries accomplished a lot. But Iraq was a mistake. A terrible one. The blame is on you and on us, and Vivian of course was wrong about it. But one thing must be remembered. The militias which killed hundreds of Americans since 2005 was Iran’s proxy’s, as the Yemenis Houthim, as Hamas, as the Hezbuallah. I killed their men, they killed my friends. Those men killed your man back in Iraq. We don’t want you here, as you don’t want to be here. We just need you to give us international support and guns for our money. We could also unite our right wing with yours to fight your deep state, which collaborates deeply with ours.
I mean sure, but its no small secret that one of the driving factors for 9/11 was America's long history of support for Israel, especially after WW2, and Israel's longstanding troubled relationships with its neighbors, and its not as simple as just playing the role of arms dealer, especially when we are far more than an arms dealer.
We spend vast, untold sums of treasure propping up Israel's national defense, among other things. We are intimately tied in with Israeli politics, even domestically (AIPAC, countless NGOs) and decades of propoganda has turned support for Israel among elements of the American Christian right into a proper religious belief.
Then consider that in the eyes of many around the world, what Israel has undertaken for decades is nothing but ethnic cleansing and conquest. Whether that is good or bad, justified or not, is up for debate and I frankly dont care. Im not interested in litigating the morality of the Israeli project. But the American peoples' support for Israel vis a vis US bombs and US dollars was not given freely, it was done through deception and coercion here at home, for no gain abroad, and at the cost of our standing as a world hegemon, supposedly righteous. If Israel can't find a way to be at peace with its neighbors, the US should not be continuing to finance endless conflict over that fact.
Hopefully no one supports Hamas. They are terrorist losers like al Queda and Isis. Buuut... I also don't think indescriminitely bombing hospitals and refugee camps is a good solution. And Pope Francis called the shooting of Palestinian Catholics outside a church "an act of terrorism." And no one likes Iran, but I won't support wars being started all over the middle east either, especially when Isis is used in that effort (Syria, Yemen, etc.)
Epstein may not have been a Mossad agent himself, but he definitely was ultimately a tool for Israeli intelligence - Wessner, Maxwell's father, the whole group was.
So I don't have a problem at all with Jews, either "ethnic" or "religious". But there is clearly a conspiracy that is comprised of mostly Jewish members: (Iran Contra, Office of Special Plans, etc.) And I like how you said that forgien aid is a bad idea, but what about smuggling and intelligence stealing? (See Arnon Milchan, Johnathan Pollard, etc.) That is not really what I'd want from an ally.
As I write I know I probably won’t convince you in some topics but good faith can and have overcame disagreements in the past and future.
The middle east is a total mess. The USA should not put troops on the ground, we agree on that. But the war is happening. We were attacked. 29 of my friends and brothers in arms died in oct 7, 17 more in the year since. There is a war. And Iran is the chief of that war. Now, if you say, I don’t care, let Israel burn, let us die and etc, that’s fair. But if else, all we want is to buy with money the American weapons to kill anti American thugs and mass murderes. Mr. Trump is a very wise guy and I think he likes this deal.
Now about the Palestinians. Do you know the Bibas kids? They weren’t taken by Hamas, they were taken by civilians. Murdered by them, in cold blood. In every house in Gaza man, every house, and I’ve been there too long frankly, there are weapons, from guns and pistols to heavy rockets. I was in a kindergarten in al-muwazi, southern Gaza city. Underneath it? A giant lab for explosive rockets.
And yet we do anything we can. The ratio for terrorist and civilians killed was almost 1:1. In most conflicts it’s 1:3 more civilians than terrorists. I never saw a deliberate war crime, like the thousands on oct7 including the beheading of a friend. I’m 23 years old, and probably buried more friends than most Americans- why isn’t it okay that we want to eliminate Hamas?
So in few words. There’s a distinction between right wing and left wing. I’m the son of a somewhat famous Israeli right wing media man. In 2016 we started talking about Epstein. Israelis sent info to American journalists to get this sick guy locked. We are the bibi supporters. All the things you speak about are shit that wealthy Jews and gentiles did, most of them reform or atheist, combined with the American and Israeli deep state. Epstein is the father of the connection between our deep state to yours. In order to eliminate both, we need to work together, not separated. We MUST work together and release everything, challenge the rigged systems, while respecting each other lines and faith.
There is so much wrong with this article. You need to read Catholic history Matt, in relation to the Jews to understand the position we are in today. You are very naive! Start with The Jewish Question in Europe: The Causes, The Effects, The Remedies from La Civilta Cattolica. PDF available here: https://archive.org/details/civiltacattolicathejewishquestionineurope)
"an antisemitic mindset takes a partial truth—some Jews have power—and weaves it into a totalizing narrative that treats Jewishness itself as the key to corruption."
This helps a lot. Thank you, Matt.
What I'd still like someone to explain to me is.. why is the statement "Christ is King" supposedly antisemitic--esp. when said out of the blue or w/no ill will or intention to offend?
I may not like Israel, per se, but I don't have anything against Jews, so it makes no sense how a simple fact that defines a Christian makes that same person an antisemite.
There is a lot wrong with this argument, not least of all that it actually ignores the historical reality of the Church’s teachings and reception of the Jews. To begin with we must state plainly that Matt is wrong on a number of statements of fact including the idea that the Church has never taught that Jews are under a corporate curse, this is of course untrue see St. Augustine’s commentary on psalm 64: ‘Let not the Jews say, we have not killed Christ. For to this end they gave Him to Pilate the judge, in order that they themselves might seem as it were guiltless of His death....But if he is guilty because he did it though unwillingly, are they innocent who compelled him to do it? By no means. But he gave sentence against Him, and commanded Him to be crucified: and in a manner himself killed Him; ye also, O you Jews, killed Him. Whence did ye kill Him? With the sword of the tongue’.
Moreover Matt ignores the very real history of intentional separation which the Church enforced against the Jews historically. Jews were required to live in ghettos, wear distinctive clothing, attend a sermon preached to them on Saturdays, were forbidden from practicing any Christian profession, the burning of Jewish books etc. This was taught and reinforced many times by the popes including in papal bulls such as Impia Gens, Impia Judeaorum perfidia, cum nimis absurdum etc.
Ultimately Matt’s argument for this and many more reasons is very unconvincing and we should feel free to say with the scriptures that until they convert we must say with St. Paul: “for you also have suffered the same things from your own coutrymen, even as they have from the Jews,
Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and the prophets, and have persecuted us, and please not God, and are adversaries to all men”.
I think the Church is in a better position to tell us what She has taught and what isn't taught than you are by quote-mining Fathers.
You, like E. Michael Jones, cut St. Paul off mid sentence in your quotation of 1 Thessalonians 2 by ending in verse 15. In the following verse St. Paul explains that they are adversaries of all men because they prohibit the gospel from being preached to Gentiles—such is the plain sense of the text and the interpretation of even St. John Chrysostom. Accordingly, this "adversaries of all men" label is not applicable to Jews who do not prohibit the gospel from being preached (i.e. contemporary Jews). It is better applied to communists and Islamists who still do such things.
„The Church has never taken Matthew 27:25 as a justification for collective Jewish guilt—Vatican II, the Catechism, and even the Council of Trent all affirm that our sins, not the Jews alone, put Christ on the cross.„
You didn’t address the guilt of the jews you just said „you sin too“ therefore you can’t notice that the Jews bear collective responsibility for Murdering God. Fr Francisco Suarez S.J. For example refers to the perpetual servitude of the Jews; „the Jews are not only subjects but also slaves… it is stated (in Hostiensis’ Summa, De Iudaeis) that the Jews have indeed inherently merited this slavery, but that in point of fact they are tributaries with the civil status of subordinate subjects…Therefore, the true reason for this discrimination against the Jews is thought to be the fact that intercourse with the Jews involves more peril on account of their greater pertinacity and their hatred of the Christian religion.“
"Antisemitism is irrational hostility toward Jewish people as Jews. That could mean believing they are collectively responsible for societal ills, assuming bad faith in all Jews, or even treating them as an inherent enemy of Christianity."
That's a definition. The key word is "irrational". If it could be demonstrated that a belief critical of Jews as Jews is rational, then it would cease to be "antisemitism". Hypothetically, of course.
That's the problem with applying definitions to postmodern -isms. They work best in ambiguity. As soon as you apply logic to them, they become meaningless and ineffective. You won't find a single "antisemite" who believes his criticism of Jews as Jews is not rational.
However you can often demonstrate its irrationality to the point where the antisemite will simply resort to ridicule, and accuse you of being Jewish rather than engaging the argument. This is not rational behavior. The dialogue showed why Matt thinks that the hostility has reached the level of irrationality, and you are not interacting with his responses, but rather complaining that he uses a term which the Church has saw fit to utilize.
Matt assumes that any historical claim that can be labeled "conspiracy theory" must also be "irrational".
This is obviously false. Applying the label "conspiracy theory" to a historical claim does not render it "irrational".
Therefore, potentially, there are rational historical claims that might be labeled "conspiracy theories".
Therefore, a rational historical claim that is critical of Jews as Jews cannot be "antisemitic".
This renders the definition meaningless, because the whole point of the concept of "antisemitism" is to dismiss historical claims critical of Jews as Jews, regardless of the rationality of those claims.
“ Leo: Neither do Jews. There are secular Jews, Orthodox Jews, liberal Jews, conservative Jews, Jews who hate the ADL, and Jews who support it. The Jewish world is just as divided as the Catholic world.”
The above quote is not sufficiently challenged in the dialogue. Jews are Jews in the eyes of Jews by dint of their mother’s womb, not their ideological beliefs. Which is to say that the Jewish world is not as divided as the Catholic world. To be Catholic requires a sacramental act after birth, but to be Jewish only requires birth. Catholics don’t regard non baptized persons who think Jesus was a swell guy as Catholic. Jews regard any person born of a Jewish womb to be a Jew, regardless of that persons beliefs. This is the heart of the issue. Are we saved by our blood DNA, or by our Lord Jesus Christ?
Well put brother. It is Dual covenant theology Vs Supersessionism, and which has the Church taught. That is at the core of this issue, which no one is actually talking about right now.
Although I believe you that this is an honest attempt at understanding the issue but I think you should have a conversation with E Michael Jones to get a more fair representation of the other side because you repeatedly conflate the Semitic race and Jewish religious beliefs.
If we understand antisemitism as sin, I think it’s helpful to define it this way:
**antisemitism is the failure to love your neighbor as yourself because they're Jewish.**
If we define it this way, we understand that we should treat Jews with the same charity with which we expect others to treat ourselves. I notice that lately these people have no problem identifying anti-White hate, but pretend like it's virtually impossible to hate Jews; they gaslight at every turn. This inconsistency represents a failure to love your Jewish neighbor as you love yourself.
The only way this issue can progress toward a real synthesis, is to dialogue with the opposing side. Writing a long Socratic article about your perspective on the issue is nice, but all it really seems to add up to is just one more pile of words and rationals for one side to hurl at the other.
It seems like this issue could be handled much more effectively by hosting a civil dialogue with someone like EMJ.
It also would be able to reach far more people in a significantly more impactful way. But more importantly, it also seems that this is an inevitable necessity now, as this is becoming real point of contention in the church, especially among Traditional Catholics who feel that the church is experiencing profound decay and decline.
What will certainly makes things even worse however, is the constant pearl clutching and irrational refusal to dialogue with others of a different mind set, and calling the other side conspiracy theorist’s and attacking their character. Those are not serious arguments.
I think Matt said it best when he concluded his reading of Archbishop Vigano’s letter with something along the lines of “don’t attack his character or motives, that doesn’t help, let’s please deal with the contents of his letter instead.”
So can we please hear you or someone else deal with the actual people who support these beliefs, instead of this guter level back and forth?
This is a good start to a conversation. Thank you for that! It is brave to wade into these waters.
I’d like you to reconsider your position on conspiracy. There absolutely could be a race or religious based conspiracy to enact a change. As an example, if a group of Somali Muslims in Minnesota decided to organize around electing one of their own as a politician to advance their own interests, you could call that a Somali Conspiracy or a Muslim Conspiracy , even if not all Muslims or Somalis supported the conspiracy. This is the case, as an example, with AIPAC. Am I wrong to describe that as a Jewish organization or conspiracy? (In this case, meaning group of people conspiring together to advance an interest).
I appreciate the genuine and honest approach to understanding the issue from a different perspective, I hate to see Catholics attacking each other and people labeling any public figure a puppet of something if they don’t agree.
I would define antisemitism as a racial ideology that posits that the Semitic race is incapable of salvation. It is an absurd assertion for a Catholic to make considering the blessed mother is a Hebrew woman.
I think it’s reasonable and important to think about what each religion believes and when appropriate criticize the evil elements of those religions. Protestantism rejects the tradition and authority of the Catholic Church, Islam rejects the divinity of Christ, Judaism began with the killing of Jesus Christ and continues to reject Him to this day. The most loving thing I can do as a Catholic is tell you the truth and invite you to participate in the sacraments.
It’s not a sin to criticize Jews or any other group of people (and to be fair it should be called out when the criticism is unfair) when it’s warranted. After the overturning of Roe vs Wade over 400 Jewish groups signed a petition saying abortion is a Jewish sacrament (attempting to create a religious freedom case against Dobbs) and porn hub is run by a Jewish rabbi. These are important issues with the Jewish faith that need to be discussed in order aid in the conversion of Jews who act in good faith.
Can you expand on Pornhub being run by a "Jewish Rabbi"? Have heard this before but can't put my finger on it. As far as I can tell, it got its start with a (Catholic) Austrian: Bernd Bergmair. Apparently it was purchased only in 2023 by the admittedly deceitfully named Ethical Capital Partners which has several key people, with only one name being identifiably Jewish (Solomon Friedman, Partner/VP compliance). Other key figures include: Rocco Meliambro (chairman) Fady Mansour (Managing Partner) Mike Cosic (Chief Financial Officer) and Derek Ogden (Partner, VP Law Enforcement Relations).
Sure Solomon Friedman is a Jewish rabbi, he’s involved with running pornhub. You point out that there are many other people (presumably of other faiths) also involved in pornhub’s operations which is a fair point but they participate in the production of pornography in rebellion against all of Church teaching and at least in the Catholic Church there would be grounds for excommunication if a person persisted in their behavior and refused to repent. If somebody (even if that person is Jewish) calls for a rabbi to step down from a position with a porn company they will be smeared as antisemitic by all the Jewish advocacy groups.
Yes, just found his bio. Apparently Friedman obtained his rabbinate ordination decades ago and whether or not he is a practising rabbi - or even has a congregation - are doubtful. Ordinations represent the myriad Jewish movements. He cannot be un-ordained as there is no singular Jewish governing body (a la the Sanhedrin of ages past.)
But I certainly agree that criticising Jewish institutions is fair game. As a Jew, I find the ADL foolish and trigger happy -as do many others. I would argue, however, that the problem with contemporary Jewry is the exact same problem that afflicts contemporary culture in general, namely a deification of the profane and a spiritual emptiness. That being said, I think Jewry on the whole has proven exceptionally resilient to extremes of profanity (ie. I know many Jews who believe that people should be allowed to do what they want so long as nobody is harmed, which is quite liberal, but I have yet to meet a Jewish mother who would take her children to a Drag Queen story hour, or the like.)
"Thinking back upon that childhood Passover experience finding the afikoman reminded me of one of the most persistent and harmful stereotypes against Jews that has harrowed our people for centuries." 🔯 More at JEWDICIOUS: https://tinyurl.com/5dfhfp8z
I’m writing here as a proud Jew, a proud Israeli, and a proud believer in the necessity of the church to the world, and the necessity of a strong United States to the west. I’m definitely not above the desire to talk, nicely if possible. I myself and my Israeli community, and basically most of the Israeli right are-
Against George soros and his evil doctrine which harms everyone everywhere.
Against Jeffery Epstein, even from before his death, as he, while not a mossad agent, was a powerful donor to our deep-state.
Against the foreign aid from the USA, based on the assumption that friends don’t need charity, and we have the money to buy from you.
We fu—-ng hate the adl. They are a leftist organisation ran by the same commissars who run our judiciary.
And definitely we don’t want US troops on the ground. I fought from oct7 in Gaza and Lebanon, it’s our duty, not yours.
And now, I must ask. How can a fine Christian man support Hamas- basically nazis. When the Iranian regime shouts death to America, how can you ignore it as just talks. We the Israelis feel betrayed from our religious catholic friends.
I understand and respect everything you've written, and we shouldn't be supporting Hamas. But I also don't think we should be supporting ISIS, or the new regime that took power in Syria, which is a spawn of AQ and Al Nusra. That is something that the US and Israeli have done together, in terms of materiele, funding, and training.
And what about Libya? And Iraq? Yemen? All joint US-Israeli efforts to destroy these countries in the Middle East, whose refugees were then funneled to Europe. The US has no strategic interest in any of these countries and the pretense that we do was given up ten years ago at least. Why should I defend the state of Israel when at all turns their actions are counter to the wellbeing of me and my countrymen?
I respect your position, truly do. About the Syrian new regime, while Israel benefited from the collapse of Assad, in the days later we bombed any massive weapon they had. The former regime bombed civilians with airplanes, this one has pistols and knives. We also took control on a buffer zone to protect our brothers, the Druze community. I encourage you to read about it.
Now, Yemen attacks American ships and American trade. Is it fine with you? Biden was fine with that. Trump isn’t. No one want nor should put troops on the ground.
I was born when the tower collapsed, my Israeli born mother saw it and from the panic they rushed her to the hospital. We see you with tons of respect, and together, our two countries accomplished a lot. But Iraq was a mistake. A terrible one. The blame is on you and on us, and Vivian of course was wrong about it. But one thing must be remembered. The militias which killed hundreds of Americans since 2005 was Iran’s proxy’s, as the Yemenis Houthim, as Hamas, as the Hezbuallah. I killed their men, they killed my friends. Those men killed your man back in Iraq. We don’t want you here, as you don’t want to be here. We just need you to give us international support and guns for our money. We could also unite our right wing with yours to fight your deep state, which collaborates deeply with ours.
I mean sure, but its no small secret that one of the driving factors for 9/11 was America's long history of support for Israel, especially after WW2, and Israel's longstanding troubled relationships with its neighbors, and its not as simple as just playing the role of arms dealer, especially when we are far more than an arms dealer.
We spend vast, untold sums of treasure propping up Israel's national defense, among other things. We are intimately tied in with Israeli politics, even domestically (AIPAC, countless NGOs) and decades of propoganda has turned support for Israel among elements of the American Christian right into a proper religious belief.
Then consider that in the eyes of many around the world, what Israel has undertaken for decades is nothing but ethnic cleansing and conquest. Whether that is good or bad, justified or not, is up for debate and I frankly dont care. Im not interested in litigating the morality of the Israeli project. But the American peoples' support for Israel vis a vis US bombs and US dollars was not given freely, it was done through deception and coercion here at home, for no gain abroad, and at the cost of our standing as a world hegemon, supposedly righteous. If Israel can't find a way to be at peace with its neighbors, the US should not be continuing to finance endless conflict over that fact.
Hopefully no one supports Hamas. They are terrorist losers like al Queda and Isis. Buuut... I also don't think indescriminitely bombing hospitals and refugee camps is a good solution. And Pope Francis called the shooting of Palestinian Catholics outside a church "an act of terrorism." And no one likes Iran, but I won't support wars being started all over the middle east either, especially when Isis is used in that effort (Syria, Yemen, etc.)
Epstein may not have been a Mossad agent himself, but he definitely was ultimately a tool for Israeli intelligence - Wessner, Maxwell's father, the whole group was.
So I don't have a problem at all with Jews, either "ethnic" or "religious". But there is clearly a conspiracy that is comprised of mostly Jewish members: (Iran Contra, Office of Special Plans, etc.) And I like how you said that forgien aid is a bad idea, but what about smuggling and intelligence stealing? (See Arnon Milchan, Johnathan Pollard, etc.) That is not really what I'd want from an ally.
As I write I know I probably won’t convince you in some topics but good faith can and have overcame disagreements in the past and future.
The middle east is a total mess. The USA should not put troops on the ground, we agree on that. But the war is happening. We were attacked. 29 of my friends and brothers in arms died in oct 7, 17 more in the year since. There is a war. And Iran is the chief of that war. Now, if you say, I don’t care, let Israel burn, let us die and etc, that’s fair. But if else, all we want is to buy with money the American weapons to kill anti American thugs and mass murderes. Mr. Trump is a very wise guy and I think he likes this deal.
Now about the Palestinians. Do you know the Bibas kids? They weren’t taken by Hamas, they were taken by civilians. Murdered by them, in cold blood. In every house in Gaza man, every house, and I’ve been there too long frankly, there are weapons, from guns and pistols to heavy rockets. I was in a kindergarten in al-muwazi, southern Gaza city. Underneath it? A giant lab for explosive rockets.
And yet we do anything we can. The ratio for terrorist and civilians killed was almost 1:1. In most conflicts it’s 1:3 more civilians than terrorists. I never saw a deliberate war crime, like the thousands on oct7 including the beheading of a friend. I’m 23 years old, and probably buried more friends than most Americans- why isn’t it okay that we want to eliminate Hamas?
So in few words. There’s a distinction between right wing and left wing. I’m the son of a somewhat famous Israeli right wing media man. In 2016 we started talking about Epstein. Israelis sent info to American journalists to get this sick guy locked. We are the bibi supporters. All the things you speak about are shit that wealthy Jews and gentiles did, most of them reform or atheist, combined with the American and Israeli deep state. Epstein is the father of the connection between our deep state to yours. In order to eliminate both, we need to work together, not separated. We MUST work together and release everything, challenge the rigged systems, while respecting each other lines and faith.
Well, that came out long. Sorry bout it
Bless you, Matt!
There is so much wrong with this article. You need to read Catholic history Matt, in relation to the Jews to understand the position we are in today. You are very naive! Start with The Jewish Question in Europe: The Causes, The Effects, The Remedies from La Civilta Cattolica. PDF available here: https://archive.org/details/civiltacattolicathejewishquestionineurope)
"an antisemitic mindset takes a partial truth—some Jews have power—and weaves it into a totalizing narrative that treats Jewishness itself as the key to corruption."
This helps a lot. Thank you, Matt.
What I'd still like someone to explain to me is.. why is the statement "Christ is King" supposedly antisemitic--esp. when said out of the blue or w/no ill will or intention to offend?
I may not like Israel, per se, but I don't have anything against Jews, so it makes no sense how a simple fact that defines a Christian makes that same person an antisemite.
It is not antisemitic when it is said out of the blue with no intention to offend. I am not aware of anyone who says that it is.
There is a lot wrong with this argument, not least of all that it actually ignores the historical reality of the Church’s teachings and reception of the Jews. To begin with we must state plainly that Matt is wrong on a number of statements of fact including the idea that the Church has never taught that Jews are under a corporate curse, this is of course untrue see St. Augustine’s commentary on psalm 64: ‘Let not the Jews say, we have not killed Christ. For to this end they gave Him to Pilate the judge, in order that they themselves might seem as it were guiltless of His death....But if he is guilty because he did it though unwillingly, are they innocent who compelled him to do it? By no means. But he gave sentence against Him, and commanded Him to be crucified: and in a manner himself killed Him; ye also, O you Jews, killed Him. Whence did ye kill Him? With the sword of the tongue’.
Moreover Matt ignores the very real history of intentional separation which the Church enforced against the Jews historically. Jews were required to live in ghettos, wear distinctive clothing, attend a sermon preached to them on Saturdays, were forbidden from practicing any Christian profession, the burning of Jewish books etc. This was taught and reinforced many times by the popes including in papal bulls such as Impia Gens, Impia Judeaorum perfidia, cum nimis absurdum etc.
Ultimately Matt’s argument for this and many more reasons is very unconvincing and we should feel free to say with the scriptures that until they convert we must say with St. Paul: “for you also have suffered the same things from your own coutrymen, even as they have from the Jews,
Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and the prophets, and have persecuted us, and please not God, and are adversaries to all men”.
I think the Church is in a better position to tell us what She has taught and what isn't taught than you are by quote-mining Fathers.
You, like E. Michael Jones, cut St. Paul off mid sentence in your quotation of 1 Thessalonians 2 by ending in verse 15. In the following verse St. Paul explains that they are adversaries of all men because they prohibit the gospel from being preached to Gentiles—such is the plain sense of the text and the interpretation of even St. John Chrysostom. Accordingly, this "adversaries of all men" label is not applicable to Jews who do not prohibit the gospel from being preached (i.e. contemporary Jews). It is better applied to communists and Islamists who still do such things.
„The Church has never taken Matthew 27:25 as a justification for collective Jewish guilt—Vatican II, the Catechism, and even the Council of Trent all affirm that our sins, not the Jews alone, put Christ on the cross.„
You didn’t address the guilt of the jews you just said „you sin too“ therefore you can’t notice that the Jews bear collective responsibility for Murdering God. Fr Francisco Suarez S.J. For example refers to the perpetual servitude of the Jews; „the Jews are not only subjects but also slaves… it is stated (in Hostiensis’ Summa, De Iudaeis) that the Jews have indeed inherently merited this slavery, but that in point of fact they are tributaries with the civil status of subordinate subjects…Therefore, the true reason for this discrimination against the Jews is thought to be the fact that intercourse with the Jews involves more peril on account of their greater pertinacity and their hatred of the Christian religion.“
Matt jumping into this in this manner is very disappointing. Is it anti Catholic to notice patterns and thus, acknowledge reality?
"Antisemitism is irrational hostility toward Jewish people as Jews. That could mean believing they are collectively responsible for societal ills, assuming bad faith in all Jews, or even treating them as an inherent enemy of Christianity."
That's a definition. The key word is "irrational". If it could be demonstrated that a belief critical of Jews as Jews is rational, then it would cease to be "antisemitism". Hypothetically, of course.
That's the problem with applying definitions to postmodern -isms. They work best in ambiguity. As soon as you apply logic to them, they become meaningless and ineffective. You won't find a single "antisemite" who believes his criticism of Jews as Jews is not rational.
However you can often demonstrate its irrationality to the point where the antisemite will simply resort to ridicule, and accuse you of being Jewish rather than engaging the argument. This is not rational behavior. The dialogue showed why Matt thinks that the hostility has reached the level of irrationality, and you are not interacting with his responses, but rather complaining that he uses a term which the Church has saw fit to utilize.
Matt assumes that any historical claim that can be labeled "conspiracy theory" must also be "irrational".
This is obviously false. Applying the label "conspiracy theory" to a historical claim does not render it "irrational".
Therefore, potentially, there are rational historical claims that might be labeled "conspiracy theories".
Therefore, a rational historical claim that is critical of Jews as Jews cannot be "antisemitic".
This renders the definition meaningless, because the whole point of the concept of "antisemitism" is to dismiss historical claims critical of Jews as Jews, regardless of the rationality of those claims.
And how convenient to label someone and anti Semite rather than engaging with the arguments
“ Leo: Neither do Jews. There are secular Jews, Orthodox Jews, liberal Jews, conservative Jews, Jews who hate the ADL, and Jews who support it. The Jewish world is just as divided as the Catholic world.”
The above quote is not sufficiently challenged in the dialogue. Jews are Jews in the eyes of Jews by dint of their mother’s womb, not their ideological beliefs. Which is to say that the Jewish world is not as divided as the Catholic world. To be Catholic requires a sacramental act after birth, but to be Jewish only requires birth. Catholics don’t regard non baptized persons who think Jesus was a swell guy as Catholic. Jews regard any person born of a Jewish womb to be a Jew, regardless of that persons beliefs. This is the heart of the issue. Are we saved by our blood DNA, or by our Lord Jesus Christ?
Well put brother. It is Dual covenant theology Vs Supersessionism, and which has the Church taught. That is at the core of this issue, which no one is actually talking about right now.
Although I believe you that this is an honest attempt at understanding the issue but I think you should have a conversation with E Michael Jones to get a more fair representation of the other side because you repeatedly conflate the Semitic race and Jewish religious beliefs.
If we understand antisemitism as sin, I think it’s helpful to define it this way:
**antisemitism is the failure to love your neighbor as yourself because they're Jewish.**
If we define it this way, we understand that we should treat Jews with the same charity with which we expect others to treat ourselves. I notice that lately these people have no problem identifying anti-White hate, but pretend like it's virtually impossible to hate Jews; they gaslight at every turn. This inconsistency represents a failure to love your Jewish neighbor as you love yourself.
Thanks for this. I found this recent article helpful as well: https://www.catholicculture.org/commentary/when-attacking-antisemitism-dont-fudge-church-teaching/
Superb article.
The only way this issue can progress toward a real synthesis, is to dialogue with the opposing side. Writing a long Socratic article about your perspective on the issue is nice, but all it really seems to add up to is just one more pile of words and rationals for one side to hurl at the other.
It seems like this issue could be handled much more effectively by hosting a civil dialogue with someone like EMJ.
It also would be able to reach far more people in a significantly more impactful way. But more importantly, it also seems that this is an inevitable necessity now, as this is becoming real point of contention in the church, especially among Traditional Catholics who feel that the church is experiencing profound decay and decline.
What will certainly makes things even worse however, is the constant pearl clutching and irrational refusal to dialogue with others of a different mind set, and calling the other side conspiracy theorist’s and attacking their character. Those are not serious arguments.
I think Matt said it best when he concluded his reading of Archbishop Vigano’s letter with something along the lines of “don’t attack his character or motives, that doesn’t help, let’s please deal with the contents of his letter instead.”
So can we please hear you or someone else deal with the actual people who support these beliefs, instead of this guter level back and forth?
This is a good start to a conversation. Thank you for that! It is brave to wade into these waters.
I’d like you to reconsider your position on conspiracy. There absolutely could be a race or religious based conspiracy to enact a change. As an example, if a group of Somali Muslims in Minnesota decided to organize around electing one of their own as a politician to advance their own interests, you could call that a Somali Conspiracy or a Muslim Conspiracy , even if not all Muslims or Somalis supported the conspiracy. This is the case, as an example, with AIPAC. Am I wrong to describe that as a Jewish organization or conspiracy? (In this case, meaning group of people conspiring together to advance an interest).
I appreciate the genuine and honest approach to understanding the issue from a different perspective, I hate to see Catholics attacking each other and people labeling any public figure a puppet of something if they don’t agree.
I would define antisemitism as a racial ideology that posits that the Semitic race is incapable of salvation. It is an absurd assertion for a Catholic to make considering the blessed mother is a Hebrew woman.
I think it’s reasonable and important to think about what each religion believes and when appropriate criticize the evil elements of those religions. Protestantism rejects the tradition and authority of the Catholic Church, Islam rejects the divinity of Christ, Judaism began with the killing of Jesus Christ and continues to reject Him to this day. The most loving thing I can do as a Catholic is tell you the truth and invite you to participate in the sacraments.
It’s not a sin to criticize Jews or any other group of people (and to be fair it should be called out when the criticism is unfair) when it’s warranted. After the overturning of Roe vs Wade over 400 Jewish groups signed a petition saying abortion is a Jewish sacrament (attempting to create a religious freedom case against Dobbs) and porn hub is run by a Jewish rabbi. These are important issues with the Jewish faith that need to be discussed in order aid in the conversion of Jews who act in good faith.
Can you expand on Pornhub being run by a "Jewish Rabbi"? Have heard this before but can't put my finger on it. As far as I can tell, it got its start with a (Catholic) Austrian: Bernd Bergmair. Apparently it was purchased only in 2023 by the admittedly deceitfully named Ethical Capital Partners which has several key people, with only one name being identifiably Jewish (Solomon Friedman, Partner/VP compliance). Other key figures include: Rocco Meliambro (chairman) Fady Mansour (Managing Partner) Mike Cosic (Chief Financial Officer) and Derek Ogden (Partner, VP Law Enforcement Relations).
Sure Solomon Friedman is a Jewish rabbi, he’s involved with running pornhub. You point out that there are many other people (presumably of other faiths) also involved in pornhub’s operations which is a fair point but they participate in the production of pornography in rebellion against all of Church teaching and at least in the Catholic Church there would be grounds for excommunication if a person persisted in their behavior and refused to repent. If somebody (even if that person is Jewish) calls for a rabbi to step down from a position with a porn company they will be smeared as antisemitic by all the Jewish advocacy groups.
Yes, just found his bio. Apparently Friedman obtained his rabbinate ordination decades ago and whether or not he is a practising rabbi - or even has a congregation - are doubtful. Ordinations represent the myriad Jewish movements. He cannot be un-ordained as there is no singular Jewish governing body (a la the Sanhedrin of ages past.)
But I certainly agree that criticising Jewish institutions is fair game. As a Jew, I find the ADL foolish and trigger happy -as do many others. I would argue, however, that the problem with contemporary Jewry is the exact same problem that afflicts contemporary culture in general, namely a deification of the profane and a spiritual emptiness. That being said, I think Jewry on the whole has proven exceptionally resilient to extremes of profanity (ie. I know many Jews who believe that people should be allowed to do what they want so long as nobody is harmed, which is quite liberal, but I have yet to meet a Jewish mother who would take her children to a Drag Queen story hour, or the like.)
Well spoken brother.
But if it is a fact that they do control the world, then it is not anti semitism.
People are waking up to this fact.
"Thinking back upon that childhood Passover experience finding the afikoman reminded me of one of the most persistent and harmful stereotypes against Jews that has harrowed our people for centuries." 🔯 More at JEWDICIOUS: https://tinyurl.com/5dfhfp8z